What do you think is Daves army a smelly block of cheddar? Vote in the Poll in the side bar
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Vampire Lord 435pts
Extra level, Dread Knight, Beguile, Red Fury
Dread Lance, Night Shroud
Vampire 300pts
BSB, Drakenhoff Banner
Dread Knight, Walking Death
Vampire 190pts
Tomb Blade, Dispell scroll
Dread Knight, Lord of the dead
Skeletons x16 173pts
Full Comm, Warbanner
Skeletons x10 100pts
Full Comm
Ghouls x20 176pts
Champ
Corpse Cart 100pts
Lode stone
Dire Wolves x5 40pts
Dire Wolves x5 40pts
Fell Bats x5 100pts
Black Knights x5 190pts
Full Comm, Hellfire banner
Varghulf 175pts
Wraiths x4 +1 Banshee 275pts
Total 2294pts
Voted!
“Ye I mean look” Dave I dont think this is too bad at all! You could of put the regen banner on a mounted wight (which imo is worse due to T5).
The lord isnt the really annoying caster/helm of WS7 /points denial type.
I’d be happy to play it! Obviously its not soft but….
D
The smell of cheese is stronger than the rotting flesh of a carrion cart!
Dave winning games??
CHEEEEEEEEEESE!!!!!
I don’t think the list is cheesey. It is a tough, solid list but definately not over the top. Dave only has 3 heroes and I have a hard time being hyper critical of VC with that few. What I don’t get is why the list is 2294 pts, as the standard tourney size is 2250.
Going back to the cheesey thing, if people find this list too hard they are not going to do well against VC in tourneys. People have to be prepared to deal with much worse otherwise their hopes of winning are going to be the only things headed to the grave.
Pretty common list to be honest. Don’t see what the big fuss is all about.
The next tourney is 2300pts for some reason
I wouldnt have any problem fighting his army, its a fast mover for shure but hardly cheesey
Pretty standard “Eggs in one basket list” but i could see the uber unit having problems against Dwarven big guns with flame runes
I don’t see any reason to call this one cheesy. It looks like a rather fun lits(IE: not ultiment points denial helmy tons of caharacters sort of vamp army).
I honestly would love to fight something like this rather then the usual vamps I get.
Its definately ‘ard but i wouldn’t consider it cheesy at all, particularly for a Vamp list.
I think you’re just being too hard on the old man Jeff
I’m about halfway through this podhammer episode and poor ol Dave is really getting raked over the coals.
What a bunch of frikkin hypocrites is the best thing i can say. Mike Fair: Mr I was so disgusted with myself at my walking backwards High elves that i had a shower and now want to try and criticize someone else’s list
And Mr Jeff I was the first person in Aus to field two varghulfs and a regen banner in a tourney backed up by the unkillable GG version of the deathstar and frankly i only dropped the regen banner so i could ambush Dave on Podhammer…
That said Yes Dave is cheezy but come on, he can’t play or even roll dice for shit, he needs something!
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I love Jeff and the guys, but I think their idea of “cheese” can often be confused for a good army build. Its almost like its a bad thing to create an army that utilizes all of the tactical perks of the list. My idea of cheese is anything that effects the probability of overall victory to the point that starting the game is almost pointless. Sorta like a flying circus Bret list, or any bret list that uses tons of knights in lance, and only 1 unit of commoners. But then again, to their defense, I have played against this list.
It’s a strong combat list , but very lacking in other areas.The main complaint was that the Black Knights unit was invincible. There’s more than one way to skin a cat. Trap it in a battle of attrition , redirect or just blow it to bits with spells and artillery. Dave also makes a good point that he has to work that unit very hard to win its points back.
Regenerating vampires….. I would use flaming/fire attacks (ergo anti-regen)….of course if that doesn’t work you can always
“Throw Dave Under the Bus, Throw Dave under the bus!”
Not cheesy at all. It’s fighty, requiring solid warhammer tactics to win.
The list seems okay. Now after being whooped by it game after game I might feel differently. But I wouldn’t discourage him from playing it at tournaments. I think given some games I could find away around the compete against it with my current tourny army. It really doesn’t sound that bad.
Its a rough list for some people, but I think its not too cheesy. 3 characters, while being all vampires is a little rough, is nice to see, instead of some people’s usual four, and the fact that most of his list is core, not just the bare minimum. I know that only a handful of those units count toward your minimum requirement, but its nice to see more core units in an army, instead of maxed out special choices. Dave, we love you down in Texas.
it is a cheesy list, its got a super uber cav unit with a lord and bsb.
its kinda old school cheese all eggs in one basket.
VC just do it very very well becuase they can raise the dead ones, and lets be honest dave has 6 dice a turn just to get one or 2 invos off on his knights and remove any wounds done that turn.
it does tick the cheese boxes:
-Super win or loose unit
-Easy to use (the unit is near on impossible to kill)
-ASF vamp of regen doom
-Ubreakable itp etc
id say tone it down as it doesnt look much fun to play against.
It’s tough but it’s for a tourney, in that setting you bring the ‘ardest list you can anyway, in a friendly environment, this list(and one with twin-linked varghulfs + WS hat) could turn them decidedly unfriendly though! :p
The list is fine for tournament play. The others are just getting tired of losing to it and don’t want to change what they’re doing to do it. Quit with the whine.
this army is a English stinking bishop
talk about taking the pee.
“my empire army will crush you foul beasts you here”
Sorry Jeff, can’t really say its that bad to be honest mate. Seen far worse and still saw them soundly beaten?
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And Jeff, can I also say, when you were on the D6G you said warhammer fantasy is great beacause’ a good general will always beat a good list’ and mentioned some bloke in the masters, with a ‘soft’ dogs of war list…
I just finished listening to the latest podcast and it’s a good thing that Dave brought the “Cheese”, because you guys sure brought the “wine”.
Of course, this comes from the guy that use to run about 20 mounted chaos knights and three chariots….but I’ve reformed now…really…
VC lists that low on magic are alot more fun to play against than the 10pd+ lists. And even if the regen banner is quite useful, you still live in terror while facing the skull catapult.
What a crock calling that a cheese list:
1/ 7PD & 1 Bound = Weak VC Magic Phase
2/ 6DD & 1 Scroll = Mediocre magic defence
3/ The Black Knight unit doesn’t give the Vamps in it LOS (not 5 RnF)
4/ Putting the Hellfire banner in the Black Knights is a gigantic risk (anyone remember Dragon Princes…)
5/ His Rares are balanced
This list will struggle against Teclis HE or Dragon HE, exactly what is going to deal with the Bloodthirster in Obsidian armour…, of and good luck against the Dwarves with decent anti-magic and flaming War Machines etc
Especially given their own past army choices, this has got to be some of the most hypocritical whining I’ve heard.
I could totally take Dave’s Cheese Knights. Just Kill everything else and avoid his unit. OOOR you could tie it up with a very tough unit. Who cares if that unit would be screwed, It would tie up his only good unit in his army-For the whole game.
It’s just a one trick pony army. Boring rather than cheesy.
Incidentally Jeff I don’t think that you can really accuse Dave. You are forever accusing us in the UK of being cheesy but whenever I listen to you guys on your podcast you are always talking about the cheesy combos you use. I remember the Treeman Ancient BSB combo, two Treemen, the bsb regen banner in the grave guard. Jeff seems to be the expert and finding those cheesy combos then tells poor old Dave off for coming up with one of his own! I vote we change the name of the podcast from podhammer to Davehammer.
I’m a little confused. So if you think your plans throu, your cheesy?
Stop whineing and make a new list yourself.
Mmmmm, some harsh comments there from some guys!Think you have to remember its all “tongue in cheek” humour…..
D
This is a tame list. Around my area i see and play with double vargulf, vargulf/blood knights and blood knights/ black knights with ghoul spam. Every list runs the max 4 vampires and most are the magic heavy 14 power dice, spam the Invocation of Nehek spell. We have a competitive market here in BC and I have no problem playing with or against the lame style of Vampire Counts. Just build better armies and learn to play better.
+ one more varghulf, another vampire (magic geared) and some more black knights = my next tourny list =D
List doesn’t seem too rough to me, but I’m guessing thats the difference between U.S. tourneys and Aussie ones, as from listening to the Podcast, it seems like you guys worry about comp and include it as an important part of your tournaments.
I’ve yet to play in a comp. tournament in the U.S., and recently played in the Ard Boyz where that VC list would be, unfortunately, laughingly weak. The first round loss I took in the semi-finals was against that list, roughly, except with a unit of 5 blood knights instead of black knights, rocking the 4+ ward save banner and a wight BSB with the 4+ regen banner, and the combat oriented lord with the blood drinker sword.
I’ve lost to this list at 3500 points twice now, never beat it, always gotten utterly rolled, fielding an admittedly lame-as-it-can-be high elf army. (6 Bolt throwers, Teclis, level 4 with book of hoeth, etc.) The blood knight unit is just unkillable, in order to wound it you have to chew through a 2+ save, a 4+ ward (from magic/shooting) and a 4+ regen, then when it gets to you the vampire lord will kill several models, and raise back any knights you’ve been lucky enough to manage killing. I’ve had this block of 7 models running in around 1000 points get charged in the front by ~20 white lions, caradryan, a bsb with great weapon, 2 lion chariots in the flank, and tyrion, and finish the combat (due to blood drinker) still at full strength after a couple rounds.
It also fielded 4 units of wolves, 2 corpse carts, 2 vargulfs, and 24 power dice, as well as 3 bound items and the 2 carts.
So dave, feel good about the fact that your list pales in the comparison to the american VC cheese.
“What do you think is Daves army a smelly block of cheddar?”
To quote a nice movie:
“You want answers?!”
“I want the truth!”
“YOU CANT HANDLE THE TRUTH!!”
It is VC with Drakenhoff Banner, Varghulf and Wraiths + Banshee… Do I need to say more??
Actually almost saying “It is VC” is enough…
If you are worried about whether people find your armies cheesy, play OnG or Ogres or something, there you have to go cheesy just to keep up with the non-cheesy DoC and VC lists.
And no, this isnt just “imho”, it is the truth and nothing but the truth so help me Gork and Mork (or insert deity of choice here).
Christiaan
jeff instead of complaining why dont u make youre army better
your army looks like crap. I’ve played vampires for 4 years now and I’ve realized that..
a.) you should build a list for 2k
b.) if you think using a unit of doom, leaving no general to support your troops (they are all WS 2 or WS 3 and lets face it… will usually lose in a straight up fight) you need to learn how to create synergy or any worth while veteran will destroy you.
c.) what do you intend to use your extra power dice for when you are clearly playing a powerful offensive list? It’s a waste of points
I do have to say that when it comes to vampires i have 2 say go for it, there is nothing more fun than giving him dread knight, red fury, walking death and dread lance and wrist bands of black gold, he is hard to kill and very killy, or u could give it beguile, infinite hatred, red fury and blade of blood as well as Walach’s bloody hauberk and talisman of the lynci to make him quick and annoying…
No VC army which is so lacking in big battalions can be called cheesy.
I reckon my pretty standard Empire army could give these guys a good battle.
It’s only when they’re outnumbered by the undead that they start to get a bit wobbly.